The huge problem of the clergy shortage that doesn't exist
I’ve been in a fascinating recent email exchange with some pastors, elders, and ministry candidates about the perceived clergy shortage in the Presbyterian Church (PC(USA)). In short: there is none. This began with the forward of a letter from the denominational headquarters in Louisville. The letter asserted things like:
- 4,000 of our 11,000 congregations have under 100 members and likely cannot support a full-time pastor (certainly not one with seminary debt)
- at a snapshot mid summer 2008, there were 166 churches willing to call a first call pastor and 311 seminary graduates actively seeking a first call
- 166 candidates were still in the search process for a first call after a year of searching
When you break it down, as always, we’re met with a combination of troubling factors.
- 56% of candidates seeking their first call limit geographically
- Churches prefer to call candidates with experience, so it’s difficult go even get on the first rung of the ladder
- Size Matters. While 50% of our churches are under 100 members, only 9.5% of candidates are willing to serve such a congregation
As I read these stats: WE DO NOT HAVE A CLERGY SHORTAGE, WE HAVE SEVERE DISTRIBUTION PROBLEM
Or another way to think about it…. on the average, our seminaries are much stronger than the denomination.
A few brief thoughts come to mind. Our presbytery committees and seminaries need to do a much better job of communicating these stats. We speak of context all the time in seminary, but rarely about numbers as clearly as these statistics show. Where’s the emphasis in rural ministry and redevelopment in our seminaries? We should be teaching aspiring pastors secular as well as church leadership skills, that way when they leave seminary they can get a real job and serve a church part-time. Bi-vocational calls are in.
Also, if it often takes candidates a year to find a call, we could start some stopgap measures or mini-placements for candidates in limbo.
Finally, I think there must be a better way to use technology in the call process somehow. PIFs are so impersonal and difficult to differential for call committees. How about a denominational system for candidates to make their own website, post a sermon video, that sort of thing. I figure we should be able to cut down the time churches are searching.
Ultimately, though, it’s all still trying to put a square peg in a round hole: candidates are seeking calls that don’t exist, and churches are seeking candidates that don’t exist. Even if we meet in the middle, every pulpit will be full and candidates will be without a call and a salary.
Other ideas?
P.S. I’ve got another post coming on how a theology of vocation functions in all of this. That’s a great conversation to have, but it doesn’t solve the math.
image by Terri Heisele
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I think it is the United Church of Canada which places seminary grads in their first call. I recall talking with someone from the United Church at the Festival of Homiletics about five or six years ago, so I could be wrong or they could be changed. At any rate, as I recall, the candidate could turn down one placement and opt for another. After the first call, it was up to the pastor to move on. It seems to me that placing candidates in small churches that are having problems finding pastors (probably because they want someone with experience that they can’t afford) would solve both the problem of the churches and the new graduates. In my first call, I was the first pastor they had had who was in her first call. After I left they then called a recent seminary graduate. I think it’s like calling a woman, once a church calls a first call pastor, then they find out it’s OK.
Thanks for the comment, Joan. That’s interesting. The Lutheran Church in the US (ELCA) has a placement system for the first call and then are open after that. They’re placed in a geographical area and then have some say as to which church in that area they’ll serve.
More structure–bishops?–is certainly a salient way forward.
As someone who was seeking a call that was far away from the Presbyterian population center, and who was also seeking a call that required more experience than I had as an “ordained” person, I couldn’t rely on the big computer in the sky (or however that CLC page works) to find my match. It took a lot of CIF reading and personal contact to get churches to look at me.
I don’t want to move to an “assigned” first call system, but I do agree that people should be better prepared for the length of time that first call seeking can take. Perhaps that is how CPE largely functions anymore.
Ultimately, I guess, if we become pastors so that we can answer God’s call, perhaps we should be ready for God to call us places we didn’t know we wanted to go.
There is something that bothers me about considering this – apparent over supply of seminary graduates – a distribution problem. There are many being called to ministry for a reason – and I don’t think it’s just to replace pastors who have moved elsewhere or retired.
I see CLP’s being raised to care for the smaller congregations. It’s not that pastors need to be tent makers – unless that is their calling.
No, I think the situation isn’t really about finding pastors for rural congregations, as there are so many retired pastors, CLP’s, elders willing to be stretched, and chaplains willing to preach that the small congregations are not going to miss a beat.
I think this is the time to dream a bit. Why is there a mountain of seminary graduates seeking a call? There are many possible ways to resolve this. And I don’t think the problem is resolved by moving the mountain into the sea, and floating it to a rural area.
Maybe the “problem” isn’t about distribution into existing congregations. Maybe the opportunity is to create new ministries. Maybe the leadership needed isn’t needed as much in the abilities of new graduates as in the congregations and their current leadership.
I believe there are currently a large number of congregations which are truly understaffed. If they had enough pastors to call on the people, meet them in community, get to know them, etc, then the congregation will grow in more ways than one.
I believe we need to get fresh seminary students into existing and new congregations everywhere, and bring the dream to the people.
I’m 3.5 years into my first call. This is a congregation of 112 members currently (we will be adding a dozen or so new members in a couple weeks). Attendance was 78 this past Sunday. Sounds like it is the right size for a solo pastorate – right?
Well, believe it or not, I believe we need to add at least a half-time pastor. And I’m willing to be that half-time pastor so that we can call a new seminary graduate. I’ve got the skills to work just about anywhere (careers in agriculture, transportation, and manufacturing with degrees in business management and computers). Yet, I’m very clear that we (with my wife) are called here. But I don’t need to be in the pulpit and office every week for this to be a valid and productive call. And I can help support the congregation and the new pastor. (Technically, we would likely be co-pastors.)
And if a seminary grad isn’t willing to come here, there is the possibility of combining pastoral care among Formula of Agreement congregations in the area – with part-time UCC and part-time ELCA pastors in the area. There’s also a retired PCUSA chaplain, and the PCUSA chaplain who has taken his place at a local state facility.
I’d love to try it. Know anyone willing to come to Central Kansas as a co-pastor, in a smaller congregation which is hospitable and loving? I can take a job and move out of the manse, or the church can provide a housing allowance (housing is cheap here). This would also work for a Summer internship for someone with some seminary still remaining.
The person called here will preach about 75% of the time. There have been a couple of female pastors installed here, so that’s not an issue. The state facilities are always looking for help – which works for those bringing a spouse, and for those who wouldn’t mind if there were eligible singles in the neighborhood. There’s also jobs in manufacturing, management, and so much more that folks are needing here. And for ministry couples, there are congregations near each other out here, and some willing to have couples share a position.
Get 2 or 3 years experience, or more, if you love it here like we do – then stay longer. Even though the population continues to decline here, I believe there is so much ministry work to be done here – in reaching out and loving the people. 25% of the congregation here is new in the 3.5 years we’ve been here. I expect this will continue, if we continue to love the people and continue with effective ministry to children.
So, anyone interested in a new call, or a Summer internship in a rural area, let me know. And if you’ve got a family, the manse is terrific! We moved here with 3 teens, and will only have one remaining once summer gets here. dennis (at) reformed1 (dot) net – yes, that’s a number “1″ and not the letter “L”.
Adam, this question of distribution is interesting, as this question of new ministries. But I have to ask if creating more ministries and fragmenting the community of God is really our calling as pastors and shepherds. I have to believe that part of the problem is that the community involved in moving inquirers to candidates and beyond has felt far less like a discernment of call and more like a mechanical process to get people out for churches. Certainly movement and progression is important, but so is saying no. Do we get what “love” really is all about? (Don’t get me started on that one…)
I refuse to limit God’s call for me, nor do I doubt discerning my call to ministry – but I have very infrequently had Presbyterians join me in the discernment process, even while fervently requesting it from my home church. I have had seminary friends join me, however – and each are willing to push me in my expectations and hopes for God’s call – these people who aren’t as worried about the process, but more about God’s call have reminded me of why I am truly Reformed.
My fear in all of this is that the Church is not only afraid of change, but equally afraid of youth. Unfortunately I come with both in my back pocket. And don’t forget to add that whole female-thing to this mix. I promise – we aren’t going to sleep with your male parishioners! I mean, clearly women are the only sexual beings in the church, right? (It’s late and my sarcasm drips…)
I don’t think that everyone is called to ministry in the middle of Montana – and yet these are places we offer fresh seminary grads to pay off student loans? Of course leaving my seminary (Fuller), I simply cannot afford any ol’ job in the denomination – I’m already limited because I, my church and my CPM discerned this was the right place 2.5 years ago. Yet, I’m left questioning who discerned incorrectly: the church’s looking for a pastor who won’t hire a recent grad or a person who can’t afford moving to the middle of MT? Seems unfair on all accounts, no?
CLC? Heh. Real connection with churches occurs organically, through the peculiar work of the Spirit. Sure, the Paraclete knows how to work the databases, but very often chooses not to.
It is a distribution problem, but also a deeper problem springing from our call process. Assignments are not the answer, because they just don’t reflect the realities of 21st century two-income families.
I think, to be quite honest, that the church needs to aggressively develop commissioned lay pastors. In many rural congregations and small town churches that are struggling to find pastors, the leadership already exists within the communities. Presbyteries should do all that they can to nourish that local grassroots leadership…which will ultimately be far more congenial to the rural ethos than some bright-eyed seminary grad.
Thanks for your comments, folks. Regarding CLPs (short for “Certified Lay Pastors” by the way), I’m not sure this is the way forward.
Yes, in some situations a CLP can serve a church in fantastic ways and it works out best for everyone, but I’ve also heard from people in the know that calling one’s first CLP is a sure-fire way to doom a church. It’s very difficult to move from a CLP to a fulltime pastor again. Energy falls. New ideas can dwindle. I’m not against them as a whole, sometimes they’re just perfect, but the CLP system seems to be indicative of the greater problem rather than a meaningful solution.
Thanks, Dennis, for your exciting new visioning for your congregation. I think that shows exactly the sort of thing that can save us: creative ideas, thinking outside the box, willingness to share ministry, lack of ego. Great stuff!
Adam-
One more statistic: In the PC(USA) 2007 statistics there were 10,820 churches and 21,368 ordained ministers. I do realize that there are a bunch of ministers in other validated ministries, including HR. But a two-to-one ration does not to me suggest a “shortage” as you point out from the other statistics. In addition, between 2006 and 2007 the PC(USA) lost 83 churches and gained 8 ministers.
Thanks, Steve. Yes, quite interesting. I wonder how that breaks down in age groups.
Also, my generation tends to change careers quite often. I wonder how that will begin changing stats and such in the next 20 years. Seems like we’ll have plenty of pastors who may begin as pastors, do something else for a while, and perhaps wonder back in to parish work later in life. Hmm.
Adam,
I find myself smack in the middle of the problems of the “system” your post raises.
As a MDiv grad of 7 months now, and a “certified ready to receive a call” candidate for 5 months I have yet to even have one hit on my PIF and anything beyond a “thank you for your submission, we have already called a pastor” from churches in which I have self-referred myself. Needless to say I have my moments in which I wonder if all this preparation for ministry will actually come to fruition in real call. Now I have moved to the heavily saturated pastor land that is known as Princeton, New Jersey, but that isn’t to say that there aren’t calls in the area. The problem that I am finding is that there are many churches, mostly small, that are looking for pastors. And while being a solo pastor scares me to death sometimes, there are many churches that I would be very interested in contacting. There is just one problem, the salary that they offer is not sufficient for a family where one member is still a full time student with tuition to pay and only one working/income making member (i.e. me). For example, there are many churches in NYC that are looking for pastors. But for a salary of $18,000 it is not financially possible for me (or really anyone else unless independently wealthy) to commute to the city to work and be able to pay all the household bills, plus all the seminary debt that has accumulated.
While I know that in this ever failing economy, money issues are very sensitive, especially in the church. But what really needs to be discussed is some kind of denominational supplement for these pastoral positions that just cannot be filled, even by people who want to fill them. I know that there is a program for small rural churches through the denomination to alleviate debt, but this is really not enough.
Anyway, this is a never ending battle. So my prayers are out there for all who are seeking a call, first or otherwise.
Thanks for the comments, Sarah, though I’m sorry to hear about your position. Yeah, the money thing is a real issue, especially for us youngins with school debt and a spouse accumulating more!
Two interesting stats re money. One, the average McDonalds manager makes $56,000. PC(USA) minister salary median is $49,000, average $53,662.
I’m not even going to think about the similarities between managing a McDonalds and pastoring a church
How is that median salary figured? Cash salary? Cash salary plus 30% for those living in a manse? Cash salary, housing, pension, insurance, utilities, car allowance, reimbursed professional and educational expenses, etc?
I take some great trips to educational events. This year I took the month of July off for personal and family vacations. Next year I’m going to India to preach at an annual conference, and to spend a couple weeks in mission.
My cash salary was a little above the Presbytery minimum this year (26,500), and I have one of the largest “Professional and Educational” allowances around, as well as hefty allowances to take care of utilities and travel. All total, figuring the manse at 30% of cash salary, I receive over 55,700 in compensation. (All available to whomever is called here as co-pastor, as I hope to take a job such that I will be contributing to the church and not receiving any compensation.)
I provide this info mainly because this blog is read by many currently in seminary, and who may be thinking that the small, rural congregations in the middle of country don’t provide possibilities.
Since I’m second career, I had funds saved up and didn’t have to go into debt to go to seminary. And we’ve got significant equity in a home a couple hours away. (In 30 years we might retire back to the home we spent the first 14 years of married life in – the payments are made by a brother living there.)
We’ve been blessed in so many ways. No doubt 2009 will bring many blessings as well. Prayers appreciated as I present some “out of the box” ideas to Session on Wednesday.
Good question, Dennis. The salary stats I cited include housing, car, etc. allowances; they are the median and average effective salary stats as compiled by the Board of Pension in 2007.
I suppose this challenge is precisely one reason why we’ve shifted so much of our energy at Luther into what we call “missional leadership” — and the effort to help all of us think about innovative and creative ways to reach out, rather than simply to “fill” past notions of what pastoral leadership could/should be. But it’s an idea (missional leadership, that is) that is resisted on multiple levels, and if I had a nickel for every time I’ve heard someone at Luther disparage it, I’d be rich by now!
So, a first-call pastor making the minimum cash salary (with generous allowances) is above the mean and the median? That might be good for me, but it’s a bit discouraging overall, as I know there are tall-steeple pastors making quite a bit more – which should skew the average. So, I’m going to have to guess that the statistics aren’t full time equivalents, but includes the numerous pastors paid only part time.
The statistics can likely be sliced and diced more so that a person can tell the average compensation for those in congregations of a specific range of membership, attendance, budget, etc. But I don’t suppose those statistics will be put in a report readily available online.
The Clergy Effective Salaries study as of May 1, 2008 is here:
Clergy Effective Salaries
The definition of Effective Salary is here:
Understanding Effective Salary
This is very similar to the problems I have experienced with the United Church of Christ system. It’s partly a problem of distribution, and partly a problem of inadequate preparation on the part of Church & Ministry Committees which fail to do the hard work of forming candidates for ministry, helping them to discern where they are called and how to work through the search & call system. Our system is almost identical to the PCUSA system, and it is very difficult for both candidates and congregations to tell much if anything about one another from the paperwork.
A related problem is the failure of denominational staff to help search committees as they go through the process–many of them have never done anything like this before, and receive little guidance on how to go through the process.
As a seminary graduate, I have spent over a year in the search process, and I know folks who have been searching for 3+ years. Even though I have not restricted my search geographically, that seems to do little to solve the problem. It’s been my experience that search committees often are not willing to seriously consider candidates who are not geographically near them, because of the expense of bringing them in for an interview, especially in the case of rural churches, and because they simply don’t know much about the seminary they attended or the region where they come from. It’s much easier to go with someone closer to home. So, I don’t really know what the answer is, but I think there does need to be a serious discussion at the national levels about how we’re placing, or not placing, ministers in the 21st century.
Well, this is one interesting Blog topic. I am currently under care in the Presbytery of Santa Barbara, Ca and am attending Fuller. I have applied to Princeton but did not get in. I don’t know what to do because I cannot afford to keep paying for Seminary out of my pocket. I already have a ton of debt from my undergrad because I went to a private Christian college here in California. I cannot afford to accumulate more debt. If I do I will be quickly in the unhireable category for most churches. I think the problem is in our antiquated education system. The overhead seems to be too high for the PC (USA) to expect every trained minister to have an M.Div. This requirement leaves too many people looking for a first call who are seeking more money than churches can afford. I am not being down on wanting to educate your clergy, I think it is great, but how can we do it cheaper or at least support seminarians better.
Two other things. First, I think the PC (USA) should be using experienced and new Pastors to plant churches across the nation. We need to include some kind of training program to equip some of the newly graduated seminarians to take up this task. Second is more of a question, I know you can be ordained PC (USA) but apply to work outside the denomination. Can you receive your first call outside the denomination and yet still complete the ordination process? This may provide places for some of the seminarians to go and get experience in their first years. I don’t know but I am thoroughly frustrated with my prospects and am wondering why God would call me to such a situation. Thanks Adam for providing the conversation.
Love in Christ,
Chris Thomas
Thanks for the comments, Chris. Some of them get to the interesting point of how the denomination is connected to our seminaries. The seminaries don’t seem to have — practically speaking — the same interests as do CPMs or PC(USA) movers and shakers. They are certainly in it to educate pastors, but not solely for the PC(USA) and certainly they have to think beyond the denomination’s health if they want to thrive in 20 years. Just a thought.
Chris – in regard to the first call being outside the denomination… that isn’t the intent of the Formula of Agreement between the PCUSA, RCA, ELCA, & UCC. But it can happen, and does happen. I’m ordained in the RCA, and took my first call in the PCUSA. I have the PCUSA pension and insurance as well. Minimum pay is higher in the RCA – at least in the middle of the country.
I only had debt after my first degree, as I took a job, and then my employers paid for other degrees. When it came to the M.Div., the congregation where I served as an Elder helped significantly, a connection to a wealthy person helped, serving in a congregation through seminary helped, having an employed spouse helped, and funds set back for a rainy day took care of the rest.
I’d like to see the debt payments made by the denomination if an ordained pastor serves in a place which is difficult to find a pastor (rural, small congregations).