Comments on: Technology and the Next Hymnal http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/01/21/technology-and-the-next-hymnal/ Adam J. Copeland Fri, 10 Feb 2012 19:20:22 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Lorene Walsh http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/01/21/technology-and-the-next-hymnal/comment-page-1/#comment-22317 Lorene Walsh Wed, 30 Mar 2011 20:20:42 +0000 http://adamjcopeland.com/?p=750#comment-22317 Several years ago, we purchased a Presbyterian Hymnal software CD that included not just files of the printed music, but audio playing capabilities. Our minister, Ernie Thompson, used the audio capabilities to listen to hymns he's unfamiliar with - it was VERY useful. (Without it, he had to come ask me to hum or sing it for him!) But now the CD no longer works with the Windows 7 operating system, and he's lost without it! PLEASE find someway to make that happen again!!! Sincerely, Lorene Several years ago, we purchased a Presbyterian Hymnal software CD that included not just files of the printed music, but audio playing capabilities. Our minister, Ernie Thompson, used the audio capabilities to listen to hymns he’s unfamiliar with – it was VERY useful. (Without it, he had to come ask me to hum or sing it for him!) But now the CD no longer works with the Windows 7 operating system, and he’s lost without it! PLEASE find someway to make that happen again!!!
Sincerely,
Lorene

]]> By: David Moon-Wainwright http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/01/21/technology-and-the-next-hymnal/comment-page-1/#comment-1416 David Moon-Wainwright Fri, 21 Aug 2009 04:50:02 +0000 http://adamjcopeland.com/?p=750#comment-1416 Lani, Great comments. One thought, as most PCUSA churches now have less than 105 members (which typically means 50-75 attending) it is hard to pay a full time pastor, let alone musicians. Perhaps in some areas/congregations volunteer musicians can handle the music needs of the church but many pay their musicians/directors, and it gets tougher each year. I wonder whether the new hymnal will be targeted to the majority, i.e. small churches with low/no music budgets. Lani,

Great comments. One thought, as most PCUSA churches now have less than 105 members (which typically means 50-75 attending) it is hard to pay a full time pastor, let alone musicians. Perhaps in some areas/congregations volunteer musicians can handle the music needs of the church but many pay their musicians/directors, and it gets tougher each year. I wonder whether the new hymnal will be targeted to the majority, i.e. small churches with low/no music budgets.

]]> By: Lani Wasserman http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/01/21/technology-and-the-next-hymnal/comment-page-1/#comment-1415 Lani Wasserman Mon, 03 Aug 2009 01:39:21 +0000 http://adamjcopeland.com/?p=750#comment-1415 I am the volunteer church musician for a VERY small rural church (this morning, we had 19 people - a good showing). We bought the 1990 hymnals, but the now-retired organist and I got a lot of grief about it. So we use both the red book and the 1990 blue book. I am a pianist by training (although that's not what I do fora living), but we just bought a new (replacement) organ, since almost everyone likes that traditional sound better than the piano. I am teaching myself to play the organ (it's not as hard as I feared) - a family at church has loaned me an organ to practice on at home. Our new organ allows you to upload midi files, which can then be played through the organ; there are several demo songs which came preloaded on the organ - I have used two of these for preludes. You can also record what you play on the organ, and play it back later with just the touch of a button. I have joked that if I can't make it some Sunday, and no substitute is available, then anyone could just push the button and start/stop the midi or prerecorded version. I do not believe that there is a decline in the number of trained musicians. I think the problem is how many younger musicians choose to play for (or even attend) Presbyterian churches; my daughter, now in her early 20's, plays the guitar but has only played at church ONCE. I live near a university which has an active music department; our local symphony runs a conservatory (for both adult and younger learners). I DO believe there is a declining number of organists - I was told that at the local university, they have stopped teaching organ and instead are teaching drums!!! Thinking back on church organists I have known, they have all been pianists, who have been encouraged / nurtered by their local church to learn the organ. In a couple of cases, the local church paid for organ lessons for a promising teenager. For us, it is easier to get a musician than to get technology. We do not have a projection system - although we do have a computer in the pastor's office. Technology would require some rewiring (our church is in a very old building) and significant expense for the equipment. And projecting the words might present problems for those who have vision problems; I know that because my vision is a problem and I cannot read powerpoint slides at work, even if I sit in the front row of the auditorium. My main resource for music planning is that of the United Methodist music site: http://www.gbod.org/worship/default.asp?loc_id=17&act=nav_loc. They post a lot of music, both new and old (Wesley hymns that are no longer in the hymnal). They also post simplified arrangements of hymns. They conducted a survey in preparation for their new hymnal - they asked a lot about technology and types of music - very interesting and relevant - it is posted on the GBOD site - http://www.gbod.org/worship/default.asp?loc_id=17,1169&act=nav_loc. NOTE: I believe the Methodists have suspended work on their new hymnal because of finances. Most of the Methodist hymns are posted in both Adobe and Scorch formats. Scorch is a free program which is like Adobe but for music - go to http://www.sibelius.com/products/scorch/index.html to find out more about it. The advantage of Scorch over Adobe is that you can import it into Sibelius music notation software and then transpose/arrange/modify, as necessary. SO - as a musician, if I had my way, we would have electronic versions of hymns in both Adobe and Scorch formats. A side note- when a lot of Presbyterians think of organ music at church, we probably think of stately traditional hymns. But there is at least one other style of organ playing - check out the YouTube video of gospel music on a Hammond organ - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDWi4UYzsz4&feature=related. Pretty lively ! (And no - I can't play anything close to that, at least not yet.) I STRONGLY agree with the comment about limited unusual chord progressions and time signatures - I may be able to play it, but the congregation won't be able to sing it. I am the volunteer church musician for a VERY small rural church (this morning, we had 19 people – a good showing). We bought the 1990 hymnals, but the now-retired organist and I got a lot of grief about it. So we use both the red book and the 1990 blue book. I am a pianist by training (although that’s not what I do fora living), but we just bought a new (replacement) organ, since almost everyone likes that traditional sound better than the piano. I am teaching myself to play the organ (it’s not as hard as I feared) – a family at church has loaned me an organ to practice on at home. Our new organ allows you to upload midi files, which can then be played through the organ; there are several demo songs which came preloaded on the organ – I have used two of these for preludes. You can also record what you play on the organ, and play it back later with just the touch of a button. I have joked that if I can’t make it some Sunday, and no substitute is available, then anyone could just push the button and start/stop the midi or prerecorded version.

I do not believe that there is a decline in the number of trained musicians. I think the problem is how many younger musicians choose to play for (or even attend) Presbyterian churches; my daughter, now in her early 20′s, plays the guitar but has only played at church ONCE. I live near a university which has an active music department; our local symphony runs a conservatory (for both adult and younger learners). I DO believe there is a declining number of organists – I was told that at the local university, they have stopped teaching organ and instead are teaching drums!!! Thinking back on church organists I have known, they have all been pianists, who have been encouraged / nurtered by their local church to learn the organ. In a couple of cases, the local church paid for organ lessons for a promising teenager.

For us, it is easier to get a musician than to get technology. We do not have a projection system – although we do have a computer in the pastor’s office. Technology would require some rewiring (our church is in a very old building) and significant expense for the equipment. And projecting the words might present problems for those who have vision problems; I know that because my vision is a problem and I cannot read powerpoint slides at work, even if I sit in the front row of the auditorium.

My main resource for music planning is that of the United Methodist music site: http://www.gbod.org/worship/default.asp?loc_id=17&act=nav_loc. They post a lot of music, both new and old (Wesley hymns that are no longer in the hymnal). They also post simplified arrangements of hymns. They conducted a survey in preparation for their new hymnal – they asked a lot about technology and types of music – very interesting and relevant – it is posted on the GBOD site – http://www.gbod.org/worship/default.asp?loc_id=17,1169&act=nav_loc. NOTE: I believe the Methodists have suspended work on their new hymnal because of finances.

Most of the Methodist hymns are posted in both Adobe and Scorch formats. Scorch is a free program which is like Adobe but for music – go to http://www.sibelius.com/products/scorch/index.html to find out more about it. The advantage of Scorch over Adobe is that you can import it into Sibelius music notation software and then transpose/arrange/modify, as necessary. SO – as a musician, if I had my way, we would have electronic versions of hymns in both Adobe and Scorch formats.

A side note- when a lot of Presbyterians think of organ music at church, we probably think of stately traditional hymns. But there is at least one other style of organ playing – check out the YouTube video of gospel music on a Hammond organ – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDWi4UYzsz4&feature=related. Pretty lively ! (And no – I can’t play anything close to that, at least not yet.)

I STRONGLY agree with the comment about limited unusual chord progressions and time signatures – I may be able to play it, but the congregation won’t be able to sing it.

]]> By: Adam Copeland http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/01/21/technology-and-the-next-hymnal/comment-page-1/#comment-1414 Adam Copeland Wed, 15 Jul 2009 01:41:48 +0000 http://adamjcopeland.com/?p=750#comment-1414 Dwyn, the committee is still discussing what liturgical resources to have available in the resource, but I think I can assure you that there will be more than in the 1990 as many users of it, when surveyed, asked for more liturgical resources. Thanks, also, for the psalms comment. I know some congregations, when the 1990 book came out, that bought it but kept the previous red hymnal in the pews so that they could read psalms together. Additionally, I'd imagine there will likely be additional liturgical resources online that don't make the resource due to space reasons. Thanks for your good words. Dwyn, the committee is still discussing what liturgical resources to have available in the resource, but I think I can assure you that there will be more than in the 1990 as many users of it, when surveyed, asked for more liturgical resources.

Thanks, also, for the psalms comment. I know some congregations, when the 1990 book came out, that bought it but kept the previous red hymnal in the pews so that they could read psalms together.

Additionally, I’d imagine there will likely be additional liturgical resources online that don’t make the resource due to space reasons.

Thanks for your good words.

]]> By: Dwyn Mounger http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/01/21/technology-and-the-next-hymnal/comment-page-1/#comment-1413 Dwyn Mounger Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:39:23 +0000 http://adamjcopeland.com/?p=750#comment-1413 Whether or not the new hymnal is available electronically or in print version, can you include with it, as do the ELCAs and other denominations, basic liturgies of the Service for the Lord's Day from the Book of Common Worship (1993)? In this 500th anniversary year of Calvin's birth it is notable that he persuaded some of the finest French/Huguenot poets and musicians to write rhymed, metrical versions of the psalms and Biblical canticles, including the Song of Zachariah from Luke, that ended each Communion service; and also sung, metrical, rhymed versions of the 10 Commandments (Exodus 20 version), and others. There are modern, metrical, and rhymed versions of these Biblical texts that could be included in the liturgical sections. In the seven churches where I've served as a full-time interim pastor we have used some of them--with enthusiastic reaction--and singing-- by most in the congregations, using tunes that most Presbyterians have known and sung for years. Dwyn Mounger, Interim Pastor, Community Presbyterian Church, Deerfield Beach, FL Whether or not the new hymnal is available electronically or in print version, can you include with it, as do the ELCAs and other denominations, basic liturgies of the Service for the Lord’s Day from the Book of Common Worship (1993)? In this 500th anniversary year of Calvin’s birth it is notable that he persuaded some of the finest French/Huguenot poets and musicians to write rhymed, metrical versions of the psalms and Biblical canticles, including the Song of Zachariah from Luke, that ended each Communion service; and also sung, metrical, rhymed versions of the 10 Commandments (Exodus 20 version), and others. There are modern, metrical, and rhymed versions of these Biblical texts that could be included in the liturgical sections. In the seven churches where I’ve served as a full-time interim pastor we have used some of them–with enthusiastic reaction–and singing– by most in the congregations, using tunes that most Presbyterians have known and sung for years.

Dwyn Mounger, Interim Pastor, Community Presbyterian Church,
Deerfield Beach, FL

]]> By: Pearl http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/01/21/technology-and-the-next-hymnal/comment-page-1/#comment-1412 Pearl Sun, 01 Mar 2009 21:19:09 +0000 http://adamjcopeland.com/?p=750#comment-1412 Hi--Regarding projection of music on screens--I've seen a couple of Presbyterian congregations that do that. I think they scan/save the music as pdf's which can be put into PowerPoint or otherwise put on a screen. For a hymn this could be done line by line, one line per screen, so it would be large enough to read. Best wishes to the committee. You probably know that the Lutherans (ELCA) completed a new hymnal in 2006. They made great efforts to send a draft edition to the churches for feedback, and to introduce the new book, which also has a guitar edition with smoothed-out chord progressions. Hi–Regarding projection of music on screens–I’ve seen a couple of Presbyterian congregations that do that. I think they scan/save the music as pdf’s which can be put into PowerPoint or otherwise put on a screen. For a hymn this could be done line by line, one line per screen, so it would be large enough to read.

Best wishes to the committee. You probably know that the Lutherans (ELCA) completed a new hymnal in 2006. They made great efforts to send a draft edition to the churches for feedback, and to introduce the new book, which also has a guitar edition with smoothed-out chord progressions.

]]> By: Andy http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/01/21/technology-and-the-next-hymnal/comment-page-1/#comment-1411 Andy Fri, 20 Feb 2009 03:48:09 +0000 http://adamjcopeland.com/?p=750#comment-1411 Thanks for this blog. I've already learned about some new resources! Which is another issue -- there is a lot of good stuff out there, but if the pcusa.org web-site could gather that info together and contain instruction for its use, that would be greatly appreciated! But I'll check out some of the other resources mentioned. Thanks for this blog. I’ve already learned about some new resources! Which is another issue — there is a lot of good stuff out there, but if the pcusa.org web-site could gather that info together and contain instruction for its use, that would be greatly appreciated! But I’ll check out some of the other resources mentioned.

]]> By: Sarah http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/01/21/technology-and-the-next-hymnal/comment-page-1/#comment-1410 Sarah Tue, 17 Feb 2009 20:02:15 +0000 http://adamjcopeland.com/?p=750#comment-1410 As a rural pastor, I just want to add my voice to the chorus of "on-line database" proponents. It is highly unlikely that my congregation will be interested in purchasing new hymnals in the next 10 years, but I would love to be able to introduce them to new hymns, especially if I could copy and paste the music into the bulletins from an on-line or other electronic database, and especially if we could purchase rights to songs individually. We are considering getting a OneLicense, but having a database that is promoted by the denomination (even if the cost is equivalent) would be helpful. New songs from a specifically Presbyterian source carry a little more weight than just new songs that the pastor likes. As a rural pastor, I just want to add my voice to the chorus of “on-line database” proponents. It is highly unlikely that my congregation will be interested in purchasing new hymnals in the next 10 years, but I would love to be able to introduce them to new hymns, especially if I could copy and paste the music into the bulletins from an on-line or other electronic database, and especially if we could purchase rights to songs individually. We are considering getting a OneLicense, but having a database that is promoted by the denomination (even if the cost is equivalent) would be helpful. New songs from a specifically Presbyterian source carry a little more weight than just new songs that the pastor likes.

]]> By: Talitha http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/01/21/technology-and-the-next-hymnal/comment-page-1/#comment-1409 Talitha Sat, 14 Feb 2009 23:03:31 +0000 http://adamjcopeland.com/?p=750#comment-1409 Wow, it's amazing to see the differences... I'm in a rural church now, which has an ancient hymnbook (not PCUSA) and a Sing The Faith. Flexibility is key -- STF has the advantage of having both piano parts and guitar chords written in. If we don't have a pianist one day we always have guitarists. I'd advocate for writing simple accompaniments that guitarists can play (take out some of the complicated harmonizations) before I'd give in and plug a MIDI into an electric organ..... shudder.... A set of CDs would be immensely helpful for the musicians to learn from ahead of time, especially to learn the melody. Not everyone sight-sings. Some of them would probably make cassette tapes of the CD to take home and practice, some have CD players. Some could listen online... we have to accomodate all kinds. Technology? we have this fancy thing called a photocopier which makes bulletins, and one microphone, and some electric lights. Real fun. Upgrading isn't seen as necessarily desireable. But the church is ABOUT to get internet access!!! just a reality check... y'all are still in communion with the backwards rural churches! Wow, it’s amazing to see the differences…
I’m in a rural church now, which has an ancient hymnbook (not PCUSA) and a Sing The Faith.
Flexibility is key — STF has the advantage of having both piano parts and guitar chords written in. If we don’t have a pianist one day we always have guitarists. I’d advocate for writing simple accompaniments that guitarists can play (take out some of the complicated harmonizations) before I’d give in and plug a MIDI into an electric organ….. shudder….
A set of CDs would be immensely helpful for the musicians to learn from ahead of time, especially to learn the melody. Not everyone sight-sings. Some of them would probably make cassette tapes of the CD to take home and practice, some have CD players. Some could listen online… we have to accomodate all kinds. Technology? we have this fancy thing called a photocopier which makes bulletins, and one microphone, and some electric lights. Real fun. Upgrading isn’t seen as necessarily desireable. But the church is ABOUT to get internet access!!!
just a reality check… y’all are still in communion with the backwards rural churches!

]]> By: adamjcopeland http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/01/21/technology-and-the-next-hymnal/comment-page-1/#comment-1408 adamjcopeland Sat, 14 Feb 2009 19:03:25 +0000 http://adamjcopeland.com/?p=750#comment-1408 Thanks, David. That's right, CCLI is a great resource. Not all songs, texts, authors, or publishers agree to the service, though. In fact, some intentionally do not because it is to their financial advantage not to participate and make users pay royalties for individual songs. Some publishers will not agree to CCLI. I'm no expert in the law by any means, but even CCLI or OneLicense or even CreativeCommons haven't figured it all out yet in a way that is agreeable to authors, publishers, and users/congregations. Thanks for your good words. Thanks, David. That’s right, CCLI is a great resource. Not all songs, texts, authors, or publishers agree to the service, though. In fact, some intentionally do not because it is to their financial advantage not to participate and make users pay royalties for individual songs. Some publishers will not agree to CCLI. I’m no expert in the law by any means, but even CCLI or OneLicense or even CreativeCommons haven’t figured it all out yet in a way that is agreeable to authors, publishers, and users/congregations. Thanks for your good words.

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