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	<title>Comments on: Are You an Urbanist?  Thoughts on Rural Ministry</title>
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	<link>http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/02/03/are-you-an-urbanist-thoughts-on-rural-ministry/</link>
	<description>Adam J. Copeland</description>
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		<title>By: Talitha</title>
		<link>http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/02/03/are-you-an-urbanist-thoughts-on-rural-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-13179</link>
		<dc:creator>Talitha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Nov 2010 18:00:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adamjcopeland.com/?p=775#comment-13179</guid>
		<description>just came across this in my, ahem, 2 hours of reading each morning... 
I&#039;m in seminary now and am a city girl but did my internship in a town of 200. Last night I dreamed that I had another church to serve, and that I *started* in a town of 200 and was about to drive 7 hours further away from civilization before I found that church. the funny thing is that i was really excited about it. 
the thing I want to connect with rural ministry is the growing group of young people who actually want to farm, not meaning subsidized row crops, but permaculture-style and sustainable. To connect with the well-educated urban group that actually wants to escape the city and get back to the land... we&#039;ll see where that goes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>just came across this in my, ahem, 2 hours of reading each morning&#8230;<br />
I&#8217;m in seminary now and am a city girl but did my internship in a town of 200. Last night I dreamed that I had another church to serve, and that I *started* in a town of 200 and was about to drive 7 hours further away from civilization before I found that church. the funny thing is that i was really excited about it.<br />
the thing I want to connect with rural ministry is the growing group of young people who actually want to farm, not meaning subsidized row crops, but permaculture-style and sustainable. To connect with the well-educated urban group that actually wants to escape the city and get back to the land&#8230; we&#8217;ll see where that goes.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/02/03/are-you-an-urbanist-thoughts-on-rural-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-1434</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:01:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adamjcopeland.com/?p=775#comment-1434</guid>
		<description>Adam. Great blog. I am not lutheran, in fact I am an Assembly of God pastor in a town of 1300. I have been here 10 years. I was bi-vocational at first but now am able to be a full time pastor as the church has grown. I was encouraged to find your artice and read the time magazine article. I am passionate about rural ministry and love it. It truly is rewarding and encourage any young man or women looking for years of rewarding ministry to pray hard about answering the call to small town ministry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam. Great blog. I am not lutheran, in fact I am an Assembly of God pastor in a town of 1300. I have been here 10 years. I was bi-vocational at first but now am able to be a full time pastor as the church has grown. I was encouraged to find your artice and read the time magazine article. I am passionate about rural ministry and love it. It truly is rewarding and encourage any young man or women looking for years of rewarding ministry to pray hard about answering the call to small town ministry.</p>
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		<title>By: Anna</title>
		<link>http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/02/03/are-you-an-urbanist-thoughts-on-rural-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-1433</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 22:10:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adamjcopeland.com/?p=775#comment-1433</guid>
		<description>Adam, good post, just ran across your blog.  Having done ministry in both urban and rural settings, I noticed some striking similarities between the needs of urban poor and rural poor.  After having moved from Los Angeles to a town of 9,000 in Tennessee I was struck by how there&#039;s loads on urban ministry, urban youth ministry and the like, but not for rural churches.  Also there seems to be the concept that you go to a rural church as a pastor and then you get &quot;promoted&quot; to the city after you&#039;ve sort of put in your time, an attitude which totally trivializes the ministry of rural churches...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam, good post, just ran across your blog.  Having done ministry in both urban and rural settings, I noticed some striking similarities between the needs of urban poor and rural poor.  After having moved from Los Angeles to a town of 9,000 in Tennessee I was struck by how there&#8217;s loads on urban ministry, urban youth ministry and the like, but not for rural churches.  Also there seems to be the concept that you go to a rural church as a pastor and then you get &#8220;promoted&#8221; to the city after you&#8217;ve sort of put in your time, an attitude which totally trivializes the ministry of rural churches&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: DennisS</title>
		<link>http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/02/03/are-you-an-urbanist-thoughts-on-rural-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-1432</link>
		<dc:creator>DennisS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 03:54:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adamjcopeland.com/?p=775#comment-1432</guid>
		<description>The best teachers of rural ministry are those who have served in that capacity for many years, in different contexts. If a person is willing to listen, those who have served in rural ministry are willing to share what they have learned. But you have to be able to appreciate the power of story to understand a rural pastor. Rural Ministry isn&#039;t easily generalized.  One rural pastor/writer I appreciated:

Open Secrets: A Memoir of Faith &amp; Discovery
By: Richard Lischer
Random House, 2002

A prolific writer who frequently touches upon Rural Ministry is Wendell Berry.  His stories are mainly based in Kentucky.

Not specifically Rural Ministry, but definitely good reading for new pastors:

Letters to New Pastors
By: Michael Jinkins (of Austin Presbyterian Theological Seminary)
Eerdmans, 2006

Becoming a Pastor: Forming Self and Soul for Ministry
By: Jaco Hamman
Pilgrim Press, 2007

Dr. Hamman also has a book which is quite appropriate for Rural Ministry, though not specific to it:

When Steeples Cry: Leading Congregations through Loss and Change
By Jaco Hamman
Pilgrim Press, 2005</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The best teachers of rural ministry are those who have served in that capacity for many years, in different contexts. If a person is willing to listen, those who have served in rural ministry are willing to share what they have learned. But you have to be able to appreciate the power of story to understand a rural pastor. Rural Ministry isn&#8217;t easily generalized.  One rural pastor/writer I appreciated:</p>
<p>Open Secrets: A Memoir of Faith &amp; Discovery<br />
By: Richard Lischer<br />
Random House, 2002</p>
<p>A prolific writer who frequently touches upon Rural Ministry is Wendell Berry.  His stories are mainly based in Kentucky.</p>
<p>Not specifically Rural Ministry, but definitely good reading for new pastors:</p>
<p>Letters to New Pastors<br />
By: Michael Jinkins (of Austin Presbyterian Theological Seminary)<br />
Eerdmans, 2006</p>
<p>Becoming a Pastor: Forming Self and Soul for Ministry<br />
By: Jaco Hamman<br />
Pilgrim Press, 2007</p>
<p>Dr. Hamman also has a book which is quite appropriate for Rural Ministry, though not specific to it:</p>
<p>When Steeples Cry: Leading Congregations through Loss and Change<br />
By Jaco Hamman<br />
Pilgrim Press, 2005</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Copeland</title>
		<link>http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/02/03/are-you-an-urbanist-thoughts-on-rural-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-1431</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Copeland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 23:14:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adamjcopeland.com/?p=775#comment-1431</guid>
		<description>@DennisS, thanks for sharing more about the vitality of the rural ministry in your area.  Sounds like some great things our going on and I&#039;m glad to hear about the support networks.

@Jay, many thanks for your testimony.  I pray that just such intelligent, creative, and open-minded people take calls to rural parishes, and more often. Who knows, maybe the slumping economy will help pastors reevaluate things and look anew at the blessings of rural ministry.

@anyone, what are your favorite books on rural ministry, or addressing the rural life?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@DennisS, thanks for sharing more about the vitality of the rural ministry in your area.  Sounds like some great things our going on and I&#8217;m glad to hear about the support networks.</p>
<p>@Jay, many thanks for your testimony.  I pray that just such intelligent, creative, and open-minded people take calls to rural parishes, and more often. Who knows, maybe the slumping economy will help pastors reevaluate things and look anew at the blessings of rural ministry.</p>
<p>@anyone, what are your favorite books on rural ministry, or addressing the rural life?</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Cline</title>
		<link>http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/02/03/are-you-an-urbanist-thoughts-on-rural-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-1430</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Cline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 19:04:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adamjcopeland.com/?p=775#comment-1430</guid>
		<description>I spent just over 7 years in a 2 church rural parish. I cannot describe the joy of serving the faithful people of those churches. My memories consist of snowmobiling with a family with teens. One of those teens is now a college graduate contemplating attending seminary. I remember driving a combine and riding in a grain truck (a semi hauler). I also met my wife in that rural community. Sure it was tough at times, struggling with loneliness, lack of &quot;culture&quot; or &quot;social opportunities&quot;, etc. The people in those churches taught me how to be a pastor. I am grateful for that.
7-9 years. I agree. It takes time to settle into the context and to get the feel for the pace of ministry.
As to the talent required, I believe that the small rural churches ministry requires intelligent, creative, open-minded people. Many of these churches have faithfully serve their communities for generations. They deserve the best ministers that they can get.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I spent just over 7 years in a 2 church rural parish. I cannot describe the joy of serving the faithful people of those churches. My memories consist of snowmobiling with a family with teens. One of those teens is now a college graduate contemplating attending seminary. I remember driving a combine and riding in a grain truck (a semi hauler). I also met my wife in that rural community. Sure it was tough at times, struggling with loneliness, lack of &#8220;culture&#8221; or &#8220;social opportunities&#8221;, etc. The people in those churches taught me how to be a pastor. I am grateful for that.<br />
7-9 years. I agree. It takes time to settle into the context and to get the feel for the pace of ministry.<br />
As to the talent required, I believe that the small rural churches ministry requires intelligent, creative, open-minded people. Many of these churches have faithfully serve their communities for generations. They deserve the best ministers that they can get.</p>
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		<title>By: DennisS</title>
		<link>http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/02/03/are-you-an-urbanist-thoughts-on-rural-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-1429</link>
		<dc:creator>DennisS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 05:06:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adamjcopeland.com/?p=775#comment-1429</guid>
		<description>In regard to the age of pastors, we&#039;ve got a dozen Christian congregations in the area, and three of the pastors (all full-time) are under 30.  None of these are in a Bishop system, and only one is in their first call.  Seven of the 12 are full-time pastorates (that&#039;s a pretty good ratio in a rural area).

My PCUSA support group includes 8 pastors within 90 minutes of a central location.  This group meets faithfully every month, and it is here that I feel the most secure and safe to share.

Another support group includes mostly PCUSA pastors (two Presbyteries), along with a few ELCA and Methodist pastors.  This group is more focused on the issues of ministry in rural, declining areas.  We consider the difficulty of merging congregations, setting up shared ministries, doing asset-mapping, etc.  The agenda is mostly task oriented, but there is a mutual support here in the real struggles of life in an area that is declining in many ways.

The other support group is predominantly Lutheran, involves many states, and includes spending significant time together each year – a couple weeks at a time.  This was mainly for the first couple years, though the group continues to function as a support, as we got to know each other very well.

Whether ELCA or PCUSA, it is very difficult for a young, first-call, single woman, to make it three years in a rural congregation.  I&#039;ve not seen one around here last more than 2 years.  Second-career single women have enough trouble as well - with attitudes which make a pastor dig deep for strength and courage.

And to be honest, there are some clergy-killing congregations among the small, rural congregations.  Sometimes that is how they got to be small – running people off.

One of my ELCA friends in his first call, brought along his wife and a couple of small kids to a rural church.  The congregation told him in many ways they figured he would leave as soon as his 3 years was up.  He told them in many ways that he loved them, and wanted to stay longer.  But, as three years neared, they found ways to make it miserable and basically force him to want to get out of there.  That&#039;s not a healthy situation.

From what I&#039;ve seen, the three year minimum is not really helpful.  For those following the lectionary, that&#039;s one time through.  It doesn&#039;t force a person to dig deeper.  Generally it sets up a lifetime pattern of three year pastorates - and that&#039;s not really healthy for the congregation or the pastor.

I didn’t know about “family systems” before seminary, but I feel blessed to have the opportunity to dig into it so that I don’t get caught up in the anxiety traps.  It’s important to know who you are as a person, and as a pastor.  I would NOT advise going to a rural church just because you feel sorry for them, or aren&#039;t sure what else to do.  But if you take the call, seek God’s will there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In regard to the age of pastors, we&#8217;ve got a dozen Christian congregations in the area, and three of the pastors (all full-time) are under 30.  None of these are in a Bishop system, and only one is in their first call.  Seven of the 12 are full-time pastorates (that&#8217;s a pretty good ratio in a rural area).</p>
<p>My PCUSA support group includes 8 pastors within 90 minutes of a central location.  This group meets faithfully every month, and it is here that I feel the most secure and safe to share.</p>
<p>Another support group includes mostly PCUSA pastors (two Presbyteries), along with a few ELCA and Methodist pastors.  This group is more focused on the issues of ministry in rural, declining areas.  We consider the difficulty of merging congregations, setting up shared ministries, doing asset-mapping, etc.  The agenda is mostly task oriented, but there is a mutual support here in the real struggles of life in an area that is declining in many ways.</p>
<p>The other support group is predominantly Lutheran, involves many states, and includes spending significant time together each year – a couple weeks at a time.  This was mainly for the first couple years, though the group continues to function as a support, as we got to know each other very well.</p>
<p>Whether ELCA or PCUSA, it is very difficult for a young, first-call, single woman, to make it three years in a rural congregation.  I&#8217;ve not seen one around here last more than 2 years.  Second-career single women have enough trouble as well &#8211; with attitudes which make a pastor dig deep for strength and courage.</p>
<p>And to be honest, there are some clergy-killing congregations among the small, rural congregations.  Sometimes that is how they got to be small – running people off.</p>
<p>One of my ELCA friends in his first call, brought along his wife and a couple of small kids to a rural church.  The congregation told him in many ways they figured he would leave as soon as his 3 years was up.  He told them in many ways that he loved them, and wanted to stay longer.  But, as three years neared, they found ways to make it miserable and basically force him to want to get out of there.  That&#8217;s not a healthy situation.</p>
<p>From what I&#8217;ve seen, the three year minimum is not really helpful.  For those following the lectionary, that&#8217;s one time through.  It doesn&#8217;t force a person to dig deeper.  Generally it sets up a lifetime pattern of three year pastorates &#8211; and that&#8217;s not really healthy for the congregation or the pastor.</p>
<p>I didn’t know about “family systems” before seminary, but I feel blessed to have the opportunity to dig into it so that I don’t get caught up in the anxiety traps.  It’s important to know who you are as a person, and as a pastor.  I would NOT advise going to a rural church just because you feel sorry for them, or aren&#8217;t sure what else to do.  But if you take the call, seek God’s will there.</p>
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		<title>By: adamjcopeland</title>
		<link>http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/02/03/are-you-an-urbanist-thoughts-on-rural-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-1428</link>
		<dc:creator>adamjcopeland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 14:08:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adamjcopeland.com/?p=775#comment-1428</guid>
		<description>Thanks DennisS.  That&#039;s great info from the field.  I noted that comment on Carol&#039;s post as well.  I get it.  Definitely.  Lutherans -- who are often assigned to a rural area for their first call -- must stay at least 3 years.  That seems like a reasonable minimum to me.  On the other hand, I think the average stay in a call is under or just at 3 years, so adding to the list of rural call expectations, an usually long stay, might just be too much for folks considering a rural call but who have some reservations.

I&#039;m especially interested in your support group comments.  That&#039;s great.  I do know a pastor friend, though, who took a rural call and is really wishing there was more for him in terms of support.  Part of it is an age thing: he&#039;s the only pastor under 50 at almost every meeting and there&#039;s only one other first call pastor in the Presbytery.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks DennisS.  That&#8217;s great info from the field.  I noted that comment on Carol&#8217;s post as well.  I get it.  Definitely.  Lutherans &#8212; who are often assigned to a rural area for their first call &#8212; must stay at least 3 years.  That seems like a reasonable minimum to me.  On the other hand, I think the average stay in a call is under or just at 3 years, so adding to the list of rural call expectations, an usually long stay, might just be too much for folks considering a rural call but who have some reservations.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m especially interested in your support group comments.  That&#8217;s great.  I do know a pastor friend, though, who took a rural call and is really wishing there was more for him in terms of support.  Part of it is an age thing: he&#8217;s the only pastor under 50 at almost every meeting and there&#8217;s only one other first call pastor in the Presbytery.</p>
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		<title>By: DennisS</title>
		<link>http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/02/03/are-you-an-urbanist-thoughts-on-rural-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-1427</link>
		<dc:creator>DennisS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 00:08:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adamjcopeland.com/?p=775#comment-1427</guid>
		<description>One of the comments at Tribal Church suggested a stay of 7-9 years in the small church.  I think this is a very good idea.

Congregations will hold together for a little over a year without a pastor.  Sometimes they even rally if there is good leadership developed there.  Many rural congregations end up with supply pastors from other denominations - and pay significant mileage to have a Moderator for Session and Congregational Meetings, as well as to have communion (until the Elders are trained and approved by Presbytery).

I&#039;m currently seeing very long interims - even in towns of 20,000 or more, even in congregations with attendance of 90 - 120.  I&#039;m seeing lots of rural congregations struggling to find a pastor - bringing in candidates for an interview, only to have the candidate say it wouldn&#039;t work for them when offered a call.  Three congregations near here are at 2.5 years with interims.  It generally takes several months to get an interim, especially within the PCUSA.  It&#039;s distressing to see this, as 2 of the 3 interims are retired pastors who thought they would be helping a congregation for about a year, and these retired pastors aren&#039;t interested in being creative (and they lack energy).

In such situations, it&#039;s tough to get people to agree to serve as Elders and Deacons, as they don&#039;t know if the congregation has a future.  But when someone accepts the call, the congregation seems to come to life - like a new plant in Spring-time.

We definitely need creativity and energy in the small, rural congregations.  And yes, we do need pastors with a sense of self - not so pliable that they get twisted every which way by the will of the people, so that they get wrung out and souls dried up by ministry in the small church.  There can be some very strong-willed people out among the cows (though that can probably be said about any place of ministry - strong-willed people.  But remember that you are not there to be &quot;driven&quot; by the people, trying to satisfy everyone.

I do think we tend to have very effective support groups in rural areas.  I&#039;ve participated in several Lily Funded events and groups, and these have been helpful.  I&#039;ve got three support groups beyond those in the local town, and I&#039;ve found this helpful as a first-call pastor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the comments at Tribal Church suggested a stay of 7-9 years in the small church.  I think this is a very good idea.</p>
<p>Congregations will hold together for a little over a year without a pastor.  Sometimes they even rally if there is good leadership developed there.  Many rural congregations end up with supply pastors from other denominations &#8211; and pay significant mileage to have a Moderator for Session and Congregational Meetings, as well as to have communion (until the Elders are trained and approved by Presbytery).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m currently seeing very long interims &#8211; even in towns of 20,000 or more, even in congregations with attendance of 90 &#8211; 120.  I&#8217;m seeing lots of rural congregations struggling to find a pastor &#8211; bringing in candidates for an interview, only to have the candidate say it wouldn&#8217;t work for them when offered a call.  Three congregations near here are at 2.5 years with interims.  It generally takes several months to get an interim, especially within the PCUSA.  It&#8217;s distressing to see this, as 2 of the 3 interims are retired pastors who thought they would be helping a congregation for about a year, and these retired pastors aren&#8217;t interested in being creative (and they lack energy).</p>
<p>In such situations, it&#8217;s tough to get people to agree to serve as Elders and Deacons, as they don&#8217;t know if the congregation has a future.  But when someone accepts the call, the congregation seems to come to life &#8211; like a new plant in Spring-time.</p>
<p>We definitely need creativity and energy in the small, rural congregations.  And yes, we do need pastors with a sense of self &#8211; not so pliable that they get twisted every which way by the will of the people, so that they get wrung out and souls dried up by ministry in the small church.  There can be some very strong-willed people out among the cows (though that can probably be said about any place of ministry &#8211; strong-willed people.  But remember that you are not there to be &#8220;driven&#8221; by the people, trying to satisfy everyone.</p>
<p>I do think we tend to have very effective support groups in rural areas.  I&#8217;ve participated in several Lily Funded events and groups, and these have been helpful.  I&#8217;ve got three support groups beyond those in the local town, and I&#8217;ve found this helpful as a first-call pastor.</p>
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		<title>By: joan calvin</title>
		<link>http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/02/03/are-you-an-urbanist-thoughts-on-rural-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-1426</link>
		<dc:creator>joan calvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 14:31:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adamjcopeland.com/?p=775#comment-1426</guid>
		<description>My first call was to a rural congregation. It was hard because I am single and there were just no opportunities for friendships there. (Everyone whether they went to the Presbyterian church or not was related and worst yet told everything they knew.) I&#039;m not pastoring a declining urban church with a larger worship attendance, but with fewer prospects for health and survival than the rural church. During my time there, I remember reading that the Catholic church does not send new priests to rural parishes. New priests need the community and guidance of more experienced priests. Only priests with the experience and strength of character go to rural parishes. If you go, reach out to other pastors for support, advice, community and love. And pick a healthy presbytery. At least when I was in the rural community, I was in a wonderful presbytery. Not all are, you know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My first call was to a rural congregation. It was hard because I am single and there were just no opportunities for friendships there. (Everyone whether they went to the Presbyterian church or not was related and worst yet told everything they knew.) I&#8217;m not pastoring a declining urban church with a larger worship attendance, but with fewer prospects for health and survival than the rural church. During my time there, I remember reading that the Catholic church does not send new priests to rural parishes. New priests need the community and guidance of more experienced priests. Only priests with the experience and strength of character go to rural parishes. If you go, reach out to other pastors for support, advice, community and love. And pick a healthy presbytery. At least when I was in the rural community, I was in a wonderful presbytery. Not all are, you know.</p>
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