Comments on: Growing PC(USA) Congregations http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/02/16/growing-pcusa-congregations/ Adam J. Copeland Fri, 10 Feb 2012 19:20:22 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: adamjcopeland http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/02/16/growing-pcusa-congregations/comment-page-1/#comment-1485 adamjcopeland Fri, 20 Mar 2009 21:51:36 +0000 http://adamjcopeland.com/?p=850#comment-1485 Thanks for the wonderful word, Joel. Many blessings on your ministry and the exciting things God is doing at Rehoboth PC. Great stuff! Thanks for the wonderful word, Joel. Many blessings on your ministry and the exciting things God is doing at Rehoboth PC. Great stuff!

]]> By: Rev. Joel L. Tolbert http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/02/16/growing-pcusa-congregations/comment-page-1/#comment-1484 Rev. Joel L. Tolbert Fri, 20 Mar 2009 18:31:12 +0000 http://adamjcopeland.com/?p=850#comment-1484 If you'd like to see a laboratory, where the "statistics" of Church structure and death are being replaced with the "dynamics" of passion and life, there's our little church in Decatur, GA. While the membership total is not yet growing (we are losing some of our older members for the newer members that join us), we are definitely turning ourselves outward, and remembering the joy of serving others, and remembering the responsibility to "tell the story" of faith to all those we meet. Its been about 3.5 years now to understand and and confess the damage of our disobediences, and to discern a pathway out of it. It may take 3.5 more to actually find our feet walking lighting along this new path. But, I can see it, as can most others in leadership, as can many others in the membership. And we are looking forward to be a dynamic statistic of growth in the PCUSA. Rev. Joel Tolbert Rehoboth Presbyterian, Decatur, GA If you’d like to see a laboratory, where the “statistics” of Church structure and death are being replaced with the “dynamics” of passion and life, there’s our little church in Decatur, GA. While the membership total is not yet growing (we are losing some of our older members for the newer members that join us), we are definitely turning ourselves outward, and remembering the joy of serving others, and remembering the responsibility to “tell the story” of faith to all those we meet. Its been about 3.5 years now to understand and and confess the damage of our disobediences, and to discern a pathway out of it. It may take 3.5 more to actually find our feet walking lighting along this new path. But, I can see it, as can most others in leadership, as can many others in the membership. And we are looking forward to be a dynamic statistic of growth in the PCUSA.
Rev. Joel Tolbert
Rehoboth Presbyterian, Decatur, GA

]]> By: Byron Wade http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/02/16/growing-pcusa-congregations/comment-page-1/#comment-1483 Byron Wade Fri, 20 Feb 2009 04:18:06 +0000 http://adamjcopeland.com/?p=850#comment-1483 Adam, Nice post and it's a great subject. When I answered the call to this congregation 13 years ago we had 119 active members. Now we have around 185 active members and average close to 100 people in worship every Sunday. Our congregation is 141 years old in a historic district in downtown Raleigh. How did we grow? 1) Confirmation classes, 2) seeking out community leaders to find out what were the needs and how our church could meet the needs, 3) providing small groups (Older Adult, young adult, children's ministry, Midday prayer) for people to fellowship. But the biggest is 5) taking risks. Don't be afraid to follow the vision that has been given to you AND confirmed with the community of faith. Even if it does not work out you can learn from it and move forward! Adam,
Nice post and it’s a great subject. When I answered the call to this congregation 13 years ago we had 119 active members. Now we have around 185 active members and average close to 100 people in worship every Sunday. Our congregation is 141 years old in a historic district in downtown Raleigh. How did we grow? 1) Confirmation classes, 2) seeking out community leaders to find out what were the needs and how our church could meet the needs, 3) providing small groups (Older Adult, young adult, children’s ministry, Midday prayer) for people to fellowship. But the biggest is 5) taking risks. Don’t be afraid to follow the vision that has been given to you AND confirmed with the community of faith. Even if it does not work out you can learn from it and move forward!

]]> By: DennisS http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/02/16/growing-pcusa-congregations/comment-page-1/#comment-1482 DennisS Wed, 18 Feb 2009 17:35:06 +0000 http://adamjcopeland.com/?p=850#comment-1482 Marci - Congrats! That's awesome! Excellent point about people inviting people. This speaks to hope and hospitality. I believe this is the best way. I first became a Christian in a congregation where the pastor is a great evangelist. He brings lots and lots of people into the Church. But most don't stay much longer than a year. They soon start heading for congregations with more programming, with shorter sermons, with better connections to others in the congregation. The congregation attendance continues to stay about 130, even though the pastor is bringing in over 20 people a year (great location). I'm hopeful for your congregation. It's quite possible you'll have even more than 13 joining before Easter 2010. I'm not sure how to understand the effect, but it seems to me that when a new pastor has a certain amount of energy, combined with strong faith, that it spreads into the congregation. I found the completion of the third year to be the most difficult. (From about 2.5 to 3.2 years.) But at some point, a few months after completing three years, the energy and hope were back on an upswing. I got here (first call) in June 2005, and our congregation is just over 100 members. The first 12 months I was here, there were 6 join. The next year there were 9. The following year there were 5. As I approach the completion of the fourth year, there have been 10 join thus far. We are currently at 121 members. I followed a pastor who was looking for one more call before retirement, and a call where he could build some equity in a home. I think he was mainly going through the motions. He was here 4.6 years, spent a lot of time with one couple here, 12 total joined (mostly communicants) and only 2 remain active. I know that not all those in seminary will make it 5 years in parish ministry. But I think those seeking their first call have so much to offer congregations. More congregations ought to open up to first-call pastors - unless they are truly an unhealthy congregation. And I hope more and more first call pastors will stay beyond that restlessness at about 3 years. Marci – Congrats! That’s awesome! Excellent point about people inviting people. This speaks to hope and hospitality. I believe this is the best way.

I first became a Christian in a congregation where the pastor is a great evangelist. He brings lots and lots of people into the Church. But most don’t stay much longer than a year. They soon start heading for congregations with more programming, with shorter sermons, with better connections to others in the congregation. The congregation attendance continues to stay about 130, even though the pastor is bringing in over 20 people a year (great location).

I’m hopeful for your congregation. It’s quite possible you’ll have even more than 13 joining before Easter 2010. I’m not sure how to understand the effect, but it seems to me that when a new pastor has a certain amount of energy, combined with strong faith, that it spreads into the congregation.

I found the completion of the third year to be the most difficult. (From about 2.5 to 3.2 years.) But at some point, a few months after completing three years, the energy and hope were back on an upswing. I got here (first call) in June 2005, and our congregation is just over 100 members. The first 12 months I was here, there were 6 join. The next year there were 9. The following year there were 5. As I approach the completion of the fourth year, there have been 10 join thus far. We are currently at 121 members. I followed a pastor who was looking for one more call before retirement, and a call where he could build some equity in a home. I think he was mainly going through the motions. He was here 4.6 years, spent a lot of time with one couple here, 12 total joined (mostly communicants) and only 2 remain active.

I know that not all those in seminary will make it 5 years in parish ministry. But I think those seeking their first call have so much to offer congregations. More congregations ought to open up to first-call pastors – unless they are truly an unhealthy congregation. And I hope more and more first call pastors will stay beyond that restlessness at about 3 years.

]]> By: adamjcopeland http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/02/16/growing-pcusa-congregations/comment-page-1/#comment-1481 adamjcopeland Wed, 18 Feb 2009 16:30:26 +0000 http://adamjcopeland.com/?p=850#comment-1481 Glad to hear the Spirit is working in Boise! Yeah, the survey did have some stats re inviting folks to church, I think, but don't have access to it now. I've heard it said, "The average Lutheran asks someone to church once every 35 years." Hope we don't share that stat with our sister denomination. Glad to hear the Spirit is working in Boise! Yeah, the survey did have some stats re inviting folks to church, I think, but don’t have access to it now. I’ve heard it said, “The average Lutheran asks someone to church once every 35 years.” Hope we don’t share that stat with our sister denomination.

]]> By: Marci http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/02/16/growing-pcusa-congregations/comment-page-1/#comment-1480 Marci Wed, 18 Feb 2009 16:22:54 +0000 http://adamjcopeland.com/?p=850#comment-1480 I was just called to our church in September, so long term growth numbers aren't in yet, but we're about to welcome 13 new members. So, for a church of 200 people, I'm cautiously optimistic about growing. Our church was founded in 1956 and has good location in the sense of immediately adjacent to a neighborhood, an elementary school, a major arterial, and 2 blocks from the interstate. We use visual projection, but we have no drums. Alas. Even though we match with a lot of those statistics you mention, I think the reason we're growing is that people are inviting their friends to church. Very few of our new members just wandered in (although some did). Most were invited. I was just called to our church in September, so long term growth numbers aren’t in yet, but we’re about to welcome 13 new members. So, for a church of 200 people, I’m cautiously optimistic about growing. Our church was founded in 1956 and has good location in the sense of immediately adjacent to a neighborhood, an elementary school, a major arterial, and 2 blocks from the interstate.
We use visual projection, but we have no drums. Alas.
Even though we match with a lot of those statistics you mention, I think the reason we’re growing is that people are inviting their friends to church. Very few of our new members just wandered in (although some did). Most were invited.

]]> By: DennisS http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/02/16/growing-pcusa-congregations/comment-page-1/#comment-1479 DennisS Wed, 18 Feb 2009 03:46:49 +0000 http://adamjcopeland.com/?p=850#comment-1479 As far as location, it seems like many PCUSA congregations, with structures built in the 50's (and even into the 80's), are located in housing developments, and well off a main artery, where it is tough to direct people to the church. A lot of statistics from that survey aren't very helpful. Lots of the potentially helpful detail isn't included. I'd sure like a chance to dig through the data. Some of the things you really have to wonder about. 39% of growing had drums and guitars. Yet, 61% (the vast majority) didn't have drums or guitars, and there were 13% of declining congregations which were using drums and guitars without attractional affect. Rather than suggesting we need drums and guitars, maybe we ought to consider finding the growing congregations in our area and take the whole Session to visit the ones with similar contexts as ours. It's sure to be educational. As far as location, it seems like many PCUSA congregations, with structures built in the 50′s (and even into the 80′s), are located in housing developments, and well off a main artery, where it is tough to direct people to the church.

A lot of statistics from that survey aren’t very helpful. Lots of the potentially helpful detail isn’t included. I’d sure like a chance to dig through the data.

Some of the things you really have to wonder about. 39% of growing had drums and guitars. Yet, 61% (the vast majority) didn’t have drums or guitars, and there were 13% of declining congregations which were using drums and guitars without attractional affect.

Rather than suggesting we need drums and guitars, maybe we ought to consider finding the growing congregations in our area and take the whole Session to visit the ones with similar contexts as ours. It’s sure to be educational.

]]> By: DennisS http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/02/16/growing-pcusa-congregations/comment-page-1/#comment-1478 DennisS Wed, 18 Feb 2009 03:36:48 +0000 http://adamjcopeland.com/?p=850#comment-1478 I'd like to hear more about the 7-9 year break-through!!! I’d like to hear more about the 7-9 year break-through!!!

]]> By: adamjcopeland http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/02/16/growing-pcusa-congregations/comment-page-1/#comment-1477 adamjcopeland Tue, 17 Feb 2009 15:00:59 +0000 http://adamjcopeland.com/?p=850#comment-1477 @Stushie, “Similar percentages in each group describe the theological position of their congregation as more on the conservative side (growing churches, 48%; other churches, 45%). About 40% in each group describe it as right in the middle.” I didn’t think that was particularly noteworthy, but maybe it is. @DennisS, right, the original study was earlier, but they followed up w/ PC(USA) congregations in 2002. Love your location points; same may be true for churches as is true for real estate. Want to say more, but no time now. Peace. @Stushie, “Similar percentages in each group describe the theological position of their congregation as more on the conservative side (growing churches, 48%; other churches, 45%). About 40% in
each group describe it as right in the middle.” I didn’t think that was particularly noteworthy, but maybe it is.

@DennisS, right, the original study was earlier, but they followed up w/ PC(USA) congregations in 2002. Love your location points; same may be true for churches as is true for real estate. Want to say more, but no time now.

Peace.

]]> By: stushie http://www.adamjcopeland.com/2009/02/16/growing-pcusa-congregations/comment-page-1/#comment-1476 stushie Tue, 17 Feb 2009 14:27:31 +0000 http://adamjcopeland.com/?p=850#comment-1476 You don't mention whether any of these growing congregations are liberal or conservative, Adam. Is that deliberate or just an oversight? The longevity of the pastor at a church also helps. I'm 14 years at Erin and almost every year we've grown, even after purging the roll. If churches have short pastorates, they never get the opportunity to see the 7-9 year breakthrough. You don’t mention whether any of these growing congregations are liberal or conservative, Adam. Is that deliberate or just an oversight?

The longevity of the pastor at a church also helps. I’m 14 years at Erin and almost every year we’ve grown, even after purging the roll. If churches have short pastorates, they never get the opportunity to see the 7-9 year breakthrough.

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