The Reverend Esquire
Maybe I’ve just been around a peculiar group of people recently, but in more than a handful of conversations the same curious consideration has popped up: pastors becoming lawyers — or at least, going to law school.
Among friends and acquaintances several are considering or already transitioned from ordained ministry to law. Now I know the fields, historically speaking, are related. Homeboy John Calvin was a lawyer to begin with after all. But perhaps the fields have changed so much today there are fewer overlaps? So an off-the-top-of-my-head comparison follows.
Attorneys and Pastors have in common:
- they work, in large part, with people
- they work in complex systems of thought (law and theology)
- their work is based in an important text (constitution/case law and the Bible)
- verbal persons thrive
- both professions seek justice for individuals and in society
- the hours are long and hard
Ways Attorneys and Pastors differ:
- well, the pay is a few commas different
- pastors spend much time in one-on-one pastoral care and hands-on administration (holistic), attorneys work more to accomplish specific tasks and do so hierarchically
- the society values humble pastors but highfalutin attorneys
- perhaps pastors work more in the gray and attorneys in determining black and white
- pastors work in constant ever-grinding cycles but attorneys can close a case and move on to something very different
- pastors are seen as holy or other, attorneys are seen as anything but
Now that I’ve done that, I’m no more clear on why all these pastor types are considering law school. What do you think?
Connect Online
Interesting post and questions. My experience is the opposite – I know more former lawyers who are pastors than pastors who have become lawyers. That said, I also know several folks who got MDIVS and then went to law school and are doing social justice/advocacy work. Would love to hear from some others (pastors now attorneys and visa versa) on this!
And this statement – “the society values humble pastors but highfalutin attorneys ” – am I missing something in your thinking?
Sarah
great post, Adam. maybe two things:
a) They want a profession to payback semianry loans
b) They see the Church getting more involved in legal issues about property, ministry, etc that it’s becoming a new specialized field
@ Sarah re “the society values humble pastors but highfalutin attorneys” I’m just thinking when the average Joe wants a pastor, he wants a humble one. But when Joe wants a lawyer to win his case, highfalutin is ideal.
@Stushie. Yep. Two good ponderings.
Oh, and yeah I know plenty of lawyers turned pastors. I’ve just had more experiences with the other way around recently.
News to me. About 2 percent of those in seminary, when I attended a handful of years ago, were lawyers. I don’t know any lawyers who have an M.Div.
But if there is an oversupply of pastors, then it clearly makes sense.
I was convinced I was going to law school my senior year of college–then I worked for an attorney who did lots of pro bono work and represented a lot of low-income women in tough situations. Not glamourous and there were no huge paychecks, just tons of stress. So what did I do? I went to seminary instead.
In perception and popular imagination, the two fields appear highly differentiated for many of the reasons you listed above.
In reality, the idea that there are distinct fields of religion/ministry and law presents us with a false dichotomy.
Some concrete examples:
1 – A presbytery becomes embroiled in lawsuits regarding property. At issue simultaneously are religious/theological and legal principles. Should one predominate? Perhaps the theological, given that we’re the Church. And yet, without proper legal knowledge, ministers and their legitimate theological concerns may be overruled, so to speak, by attorneys to whom we feel we must give priority because they have specific knowledge and expertise. Yes, what ministers say is all well and good, but what about reality? This could be a teaching moment about our pharisaic need to do things in order regardless of how decently, yet even as I type it, I think, “How naive!” The truth is, we need people in the church who can and will speak with both legal and theological nuance.
2 – A disciplinary complaint is lodged against an individual within a presbytery. Does the presbytery have jurisdication? What constitutes sufficient cause to bring charges? What is within the purview of the Church and what is best left for civil or criminal courts? What constitutes proof sufficient to justify ecclesiastical charges? If the presbytery takes an action, can it be used by a party as a matter of fact in civil or criminal court? All of these are real concerns and all would benefit from both religious and legal perspectives.
3 – An individual in a congregation would like to start a fund to support the education of a family member. The Session creates the fund. The individual then augments other donations to pay for the family member’s entire education through the Church. Sounds nice and charitable, right? Or is it in fact a simple way for the family member to write off the cost of their relative’s education and thereby use the church to defraud the federal government?
4 – A 20 year-old single mother of two calls the church office asking for help because she has been asked to leave the place where she’s living by the end of the month. As a minister, I could offer her sympathy, prayer, a good reference to the best community charity in town, etc. As an attorney, I could know that under the archaic laws of my state, she may still be a minor (under 21) and might therefore need to be legally emancipated (even though she has two children) before she could even rent an apartment in her own name. Also, I could ask her whether or not she received child support. Further, I could seek these for her, attempt to garnish the wages of any reluctant father, and maybe, just maybe, she would have a place to live at the end of the month…maybe not, but it wouldn’t be for lack of knowledge or trying…and I certainly wouldn’t have had to send her away from the church with the idea that it’s just a referral service. Wouldn’t that be a witness? Talk about preaching without words! (whether Francis of Assisi said it or someone else)
The previous posting was right, life for lawyers is not glamorous (though I love the fiction of “Boston Legal” as much as the next person). Neither is life for pastors. And while life might be golf, tennis, single malt scotch and mint juleps for some congregants with family money or fat divorce settlements, it’s not glamorous for most people in this world. Truthfully, pastors see the best and worst of people. They stand with people at their most vulnerable and, as such, are prepared as are few others to offer all kinds of support. Pastors also have fairly unique insight into the malice and spite we can bear each other. Like attorneys, pastors see people lie, see people inflict harm, and see the consequences. As such, they’re in a unique position to foresee the ways in which the powerless may be cheated and disadvantaged.
I would love to sit in my office as either a pastor or attorney and ignore the massive totality of need I witness. I curse God every day that I am unable to do so. I know both ministers and attorneys who have no difficulty witholding help when there is no personal profit in it. I can think of one minister at a prominent Atlanta church who has proven for more than two weeks too busy to return a phone call I placed to him on behalf of someone in his area in need of spiritual and legal help…in short, fulsome pastoral care. But who can blame him? This person is unlikely to join his church, increase his active membership, and handsomely augment his salary. For him, the illusion of religion/ministry standing on its own may be enough. For others, hopefully not.
For the record, I’m new to this “blog” thing and I didn’t realize I couldn’t indent. When you read the above post, just imagine the punctuation and spacing as more helpful.
Wow, “Lover of Anonymity” I really appreciate those great comments. Sounds like you’ve thought a lot about not only how the fields are similar, but how one can support the other. Many thanks.
Great post. I loved the similarities and differences between the two jobs. I am a pastor who went back to law school after realizing that there was a lot of ministry opportunity in the law and it was a great way to support my family while tentmaking.
I pastor, practice a few days a week and am the general counsel and consultant to the board of a wonderful Gospel Rescue Mission. All three great ways to minister.
I have always joked that when people are in trouble they call their minister, their lawyer and their doctor. Since I faint at the site of blood I did all I can do!
Thanks again for giving me a good laugh tonight and letting me know someone else has walked some of the same road.
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